diff --git a/crates/catalog/src/folders.rs b/crates/catalog/src/folders.rs
index da21328ad..aab3b867b 100644
--- a/crates/catalog/src/folders.rs
+++ b/crates/catalog/src/folders.rs
@@ -205,7 +205,7 @@ impl Catalog {
     /// (the same place below it), for a folder renamed or moved on disk: commit them with the
     /// photos' relinks so undo puts both back. Records already at or below `to` are left from a
     /// folder that is no longer there and are dropped (undo restores them). Empty when there is
-    /// nothing to carry.
+    /// nothing to carry or drop.
     pub fn folder_records_follow(&self, from: &str, to: &str) -> Vec<Op> {
         let (Some(root), Some(dest)) = (record_key(from), record_key(to)) else { return Vec::new() };
         if root == dest {
@@ -222,9 +222,8 @@ impl Catalog {
                 Some((folder_key(&path), r.clone()))
             })
             .collect();
-        if moved.is_empty() {
-            return Vec::new();
-        }
+        // what was known at the old place goes, and so does what is left at the new one (also
+        // when the moved folder carries nothing: the folder now there is not the one it was about)
         let stale = self.folder_records.keys().filter(|k| key_within(k, &root) || key_within(k, &dest));
         let mut ops: Vec<Op> = stale.map(|k| Op::SetFolderRecord { folder: k.clone(), record: None }).collect();
         ops.extend(moved.into_iter().map(|(k, r)| Op::SetFolderRecord { folder: k, record: Some(r) }));
diff --git a/crates/catalog/src/tests_folder_records.rs b/crates/catalog/src/tests_folder_records.rs
index 4e172f47f..3ae19c33a 100644
--- a/crates/catalog/src/tests_folder_records.rs
+++ b/crates/catalog/src/tests_folder_records.rs
@@ -149,6 +149,38 @@ fn a_folder_without_labels_moves_without_ops() {
     assert!(c.folder_records_follow("/pics/trip", "/elsewhere/trip").is_empty());
 }
 
+#[test]
+fn an_unlabelled_folder_moved_onto_a_stale_label_does_not_inherit_it() {
+    let mut c = library();
+    // a folder that was at the destination once (its photos are gone) left its label behind
+    label(&mut c, "/pics/holiday", Some(ColorLabel::Purple));
+    let ops = c.folder_records_follow("/pics/trip", "/pics/holiday");
+    let undo = c.apply(Op::Batch { ops }).unwrap();
+    assert_eq!(c.folder_record("/pics/holiday"), None, "the folder now there is another one");
+    c.apply(undo).unwrap();
+    assert_eq!(c.folder_color_label("/pics/holiday"), Some(ColorLabel::Purple));
+}
+
+#[test]
+fn labels_survive_the_journal_without_a_snapshot() {
+    let m = MemStore::new();
+    let (mut j, mut c, _) = Journal::open(Box::new(m.clone())).unwrap();
+    {
+        let p = "/pics/trip/a.jpg";
+        let id = c.alloc_photo_id();
+        let op = Op::AddPhoto { photo: Box::new(Photo::new(id, Source::File { path: p.into() }, "a.jpg", "JPEG", 6, 4, "2026-01-01")) };
+        c.apply(op.clone()).unwrap();
+        j.append(std::slice::from_ref(&op)).unwrap();
+    }
+    let op = c.folder_label_op("/pics/trip", Some(ColorLabel::Yellow));
+    c.apply(op.clone()).unwrap();
+    j.append(std::slice::from_ref(&op)).unwrap();
+    drop(j);
+    let (_, reopened, r) = Journal::open(Box::new(m)).unwrap();
+    assert!(r.replayed >= 2, "{r:?}");
+    assert_eq!(reopened.folder_color_label("/pics/trip"), Some(ColorLabel::Yellow));
+}
+
 #[test]
 fn labels_survive_closing_and_reopening_the_library() {
     let mut c = library();
diff --git a/crates/engine/src/cmd/library.rs b/crates/engine/src/cmd/library.rs
index 0ae6d4ba0..569716596 100644
--- a/crates/engine/src/cmd/library.rs
+++ b/crates/engine/src/cmd/library.rs
@@ -392,7 +392,7 @@ pub fn specs() -> Vec<CommandSpec> {
             "Set Folder Color Label",
             [],
             None,
-            "{path, label: red|yellow|green|blue|purple|none} — give a folder of the library (one its photos were imported from, see library.folders) a colour label, or take it off; one undo step. The label follows the folder when it is renamed or moved with folder.rename / folder.move → {path, label}",
+            "{path, label: red|yellow|green|blue|purple|none} — give a folder of the library (one its photos were imported from, see library.folders) a colour label, or take it off (also once its photos are gone); one undo step. The label follows the folder when it is renamed or moved with folder.rename / folder.move → {path, label}",
             always,
             |s, p| {
                 const C: &str = "folder.label";
@@ -401,10 +401,14 @@ pub fn specs() -> Vec<CommandSpec> {
                     "none" => None,
                     x => Some(ColorLabel::parse(x).ok_or_else(|| bad(C, format!("unknown label {x:?}")))?),
                 };
+                // taking a label off always works, also once the folder's photos are gone
                 let f = Filter { library_folder: Some(path.to_string()), ..Default::default() };
-                if s.catalog.query(&f, &Sort::default()).is_empty() {
+                if label.is_some() && s.catalog.query(&f, &Sort::default()).is_empty() {
                     return Err(bad(C, format!("{path}: no photo in the library was imported from it")));
                 }
+                if label.is_none() && s.catalog.folder_record(path).is_none() {
+                    return Ok(json!({"path": path, "label": label}));
+                }
                 let op = s.catalog.folder_label_op(path, label);
                 s.commit(if label.is_some() { "Set Folder Color Label" } else { "Remove Folder Color Label" }, op)?;
                 Ok(json!({"path": path, "label": label}))
diff --git a/crates/engine/src/tests_folders.rs b/crates/engine/src/tests_folders.rs
index 2e60ce1ad..9f51ab408 100644
--- a/crates/engine/src/tests_folders.rs
+++ b/crates/engine/src/tests_folders.rs
@@ -548,4 +548,19 @@ fn labels_follow_a_moved_folder() {
     s.execute("folder.label", &json!({"path": trip, "label": "yellow"})).unwrap();
     s.execute("folder.move", &json!({"path": trip, "into": dir.path("archive")})).unwrap();
     assert_eq!(listed_label(&mut s, &dir.path("archive/trip")).as_deref(), Some("yellow"));
+    s.execute("edit.undo", &json!({})).unwrap();
+    assert_eq!(listed_label(&mut s, &trip).as_deref(), Some("yellow"), "undo moves it back with the folder");
+    assert_eq!(s.catalog.folder_record(&dir.path("archive/trip")), None);
+    s.execute("edit.redo", &json!({})).unwrap();
+    assert_eq!(listed_label(&mut s, &dir.path("archive/trip")).as_deref(), Some("yellow"));
+}
+
+#[test]
+fn a_label_comes_off_a_folder_whose_photos_are_gone() {
+    let mut s = session();
+    s.execute("folder.label", &json!({"path": "/pics/trip", "label": "red"})).unwrap();
+    s.execute("library.removeFolder", &json!({"path": "/pics/trip"})).unwrap();
+    s.execute("folder.label", &json!({"path": "/pics/trip", "label": "none"})).unwrap();
+    assert_eq!(s.catalog.folder_record("/pics/trip"), None);
+    assert!(s.execute("folder.label", &json!({"path": "/pics/trip", "label": "red"})).is_err(), "but a new one needs photos");
 }